Motorcycle Oils vs. Automobile Oils

[terese]

http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/oil.html

[dixieoutlaw]

Be careful interpreting this MCN report.
I don't know about Ducati's or other BMW's, but I do know what the owners manual recommends for BMW oilheads. The owner's manual recommends a API classification of SF, SG, or SH in a viscosity range depending on a operating temperature range. In our part of the country, the viscosity range should be 20W50 or 15W40. I go with the 20W50 since it is a higher viscosity and should answer one of MCN's concerns about the initial drop in viscosity within the first 800 to 1500 miles on fresh oil.
I don't recommend any brand to anyone but will tell you what I use and the results I have experienced. I use AMSOIL in every vehicle I own - 4 motorcycles, 2 cars, 1 truck, 2 tractors and 1 riding lawn mower. No I am not an AMSOIL dealer although I buy my oil as a preferred customer. Yes it costs me more than buying petro-based oil at Walmart. If I didn't use AMSOIL, I would use MOBIL 1. I just believe the synthetic is better and I think MCN's test results bears this out since the MOBIL 1 dropped a lot less in viscosity during the first 800 and 1500 mile test. BTW, what's this crap about testing with a 1984 model motorcycle? Why not test with a modern machine.
Back to the API classification. Go to Wally world and pick up any quart of motor oil and check the API classification. You will see they are are rated SJ, SL. As the letters have moved from SE,SF, SG and so on through the alphabet more antiwear agents have been taken out of the oil to comply with shifting EPA standards. I really don't recommend using common motor oil for your BMW oilhead nor any other fine bike. You ain't saving that much and even less if you start changing your oil evey 1000 miles like MCN. Now how much did you pay for that last oil change?
Why do I use synthetic? It just lasts longer - AMSOIL recommends extended oil drain intervals. For instance on autos, using their oil they recommend 25K mile changes or once a year with a filter change and top off at the half way point. I typically run my motorsickles 8000-9000 miles between changes. I must confess, I didn't keep tabs on my last change on my 1150GS and this last week I noticed I had a little over 11K on the oil. I changed it that day. Also when I rode to Alaska and back - 11500 miles, I didn't change the oil but did change filters and top off at the 7000 mile point. I know most you you will think I'm crazy - Angie knows this, but my results speak for themselves. I have 126K miles on the 1150GS, 182K miles on the Infiniti J30, 90K on the Pacifica and 91K on the truck. None of them use any oil. Angie's 850R and my 1100GS have 54K and 95K miles respectively. They use a minor bit of oil and always have. I bought the 1100GS with 75K on the odometer - the previous owner used Mobil 1.
I have a farm and am always burning brush piles. I thought a good way to get rid of my old oil was to burn it. I discovered that you can't get the synthetic oil to burn. I have heard of others who put a pan with synthetic and pan with petro-based oil on the kitchen range and turned the heat to high. The petro-based oil boiled off, but the synthetic didn't.
Bottom line, use whatever you feel comfortable with -it's your bike, but I would not use regular motor oil.
A note on MCN. I dropped my subscription to their magazine last year. Why? They really aren't as independent as they would lead you to believe. Unlike Consumer Reports, they do not outright purchase the bikes they are testing, but ask for loaner bikes from the manufacturers. In their bike test results, they may ding a bike here and there, but their final report almost always states that it would be a nice bike to have in the garage.
The final straw was when Dave Searle who is pictured astride a BMW R1150GS on his editor's page reported on going to BMW's enduro course in Hechingen Germany. He opped out of the last day of the training stating that it was to difficult and techincal for him. Now this is the guy who tests and does comparative reports on dual-sport bikes. I know what the Hechingen enduro course consists of. I attended and before attending had probably ridden less than 200 miles on gravel roads and had really never ridden off-road on any type of bike. Yes, the course was challenging and it was techincal, but that was why I paid good money for it. I wanted to develop the skills they were teaching.
In one of their reports, MCN compared the Buell Ulysses favorably to a BMW GS. It ain't so. I had the opportunity to rent a Ulysses last year in Las Vegas for a day. First observation was that it is very difficult to maneuver around a parking lot. Why because it has an even smaller front wheel than the GS. Next it tended to sail at anything over 100 mph. Then I took it out in the desert, I thought I might end up having to buy the darn thing when I nearly dragged the muffler off of it - remember all Buells have the muffler on the belly of the bike, not good for off-road riding. It had a fuel range of about 150 miles. The cooling fan was very noisy and annoying and remember I am basically deaf. To its credit it had a better stock seat than the GS and it had all kinds of low end grunt which I wish my GS had.

Just remember MCN's business is selling magazines so take anything they say with a jaundice eye.

Your roving investigative reporter the OUTLAW.

[jdubeemer]

Hi Gary,
Thanks for the info on oil in motorcycles. I often wondered about the significance of the sufix on the oil grade. How do you feel about useing less than high test fuel in BMW motorcycles. I had a friend (now deceased) that only used 87 octane in his K1200LT without negative results. However I have always used the highest available. Am I wasting my money?
Jim

[dixieoutlaw]

Jim,
First an addendum to the earlier post. Since I use AMSOIL anyway, the difference between their automobile 5W30 oil with an API of SJ, SL and the motorcycle 20W50 with an API rating of sg, SH is $6.95 a qt. versus $7.30 a qt plus shipping on each. Not much penalty to pay for the recommended SG rating. Haven't checked the price of Mobil 1 lately.

On gasoline. I used premium religiously for the first 50K (except when I rode to Central America) on my 1150GS and always tried to purchase a name brand fuel. When I went to Africa in 2003, we used whatever we could get and some of it was down to 80 octane. Once back in states I started rotating a tank of regular 87 octane into the bike every once in a while until I rode with JC Blades to Alaska in 2004. JC always used regular and so I started using regular or a regular basis. It didn't seem to make any difference in mileage or operation characteristics of the bike. Now I use regular about 95% of the time and buy it where ever it is the cheapest. Every once in a while I will throw in a tank of mid-grade or premium just for the heck of it. Doesn't seem to make much difference.
I have talked with a lot of folks who swear their bike just pings too much on anything other than premium. Guess it just the bikes, but mine rarely pings - maybe sometimes if I am in too high of a gear and really roll on the throttle.
Saying all that, we have an Infiniti J30 and if we put two successive tanks of regular in it, it just will not run.
Recommend you try a few tanks of mid-grade and see if you can tell the difference. If not then try a couple of tanks of regular and see if there is a difference.
Lately, around the places I have been riding it has been hard to find anything other than regular 87 octane so I am glad my bike is not too picky.
Of course again you can look at my bike and know that I am not anal about things like this, but believe it or not I am fairly thorough in doing my scheduled maintenance items. Guess 126K miles of abuse speaks for itself.
Guess I'm just cheap but I figure I have saved paying the dealer for about 20 services at about $350 a throw ($7000) and 70K miles of using regular equals a savings of about $440 (70000 miles / 40 miles per gal X 25 cents per gal savings)
Have never really figured all this up, but I guess I'm about to pay the bike off. If I can just convince Angie of all the money I am saving, I am sure sure will encourage me to go and buy another new bike - not.

Can you tell it rained today and I have lots of time in the house.

DixieoutlawS Techincal Services and political commentary

[Vance]

Wow Outlaw you do have time today. While I do not claim to be an expert, I do have some experience. My previous profession 1982-1997 was in fact the sales and marketing of refined fuels and lubricants for an independent marketer in Nashville, TN. Our company received fuels directly from the pipeline (yes the Colonial Pipeline recently in the news). We operated the distribution terminal and marketed gas and diesel throughout middle Tennessee. In addition we represented Sunoco, Pennzoil and ARCO for lubricating oils including good ole "motor" oil.

Outlaw is certainly correct that the API Classification system was developed by the API (American Petroleum Institute) to help us as consumers identify the correct lubricant for our engines based on the manufacturers specifications and requirements. This system also allows the lubricate manufacturers access to an easy system to help document their new formulations so we all can easily determine which of their products meet the specs we need. Having said all this, I venture to say that the vast majority of people have no idea about this system much less know how to interpret it! However it is really easy. As Gary mentioned, refer to your owners manual for each piece of equipment car, motorcycle, lawn mower or whatever. There will be a specification listed there for the weight of motor oil most often with a graph for your particular temperature operating range. This is the recommendation of the manufacturer. Rarely will you see a "required" brand because the manufacturer cannot be sure that the product will be available where and when you need it. Therefore they will give you a specification because I promise you the individual engine does not know what color the bottle is you pour from! as long as the product you use meets that recommendation from the manufacturer, you will be good to go.

Now having said all that...I can tell you that there are many more opinions on motor oils than there are on the "perfect woman". Remember folks I made my living selling oils in truck shops. Can you imagine the "smart" people I have had to try and convince about motor oils?

What I learned is this. As Outlaw stated, the lubricant you use is likely the least expensive item you use in the operation of that equipment. Some are more comfortable using a brand more widely advertised because surely what they state in that commercial is true. And heaven knows if "they" say its good it must be!

I buy my oil for my motorcycles at the auto parts store / Wal-Mart / service station or wherever I need it when I need it. I use only dino oil in everything except my m/cycle final drive. The idea here is that the drive runs longer between changes and shouldn't be subjected to the contamination that the engine oil is. So I prefer synthetic in the final. However check the bottles and you will see that the spec will call for GL-5 ear oil in a specific viscosity grade. Both mineral andsynthetics will meet this spec. So again, this is individual preference

As for the engine oil (engine meaning internal combustion / the motor designation refers to electrical motors, IMO) again I use good ole regular ( dino / dinosaur) oil. I am going to change it every 6K in my bikes and if I am on a trip 8k or 9k won't hurt a thing. The truth is that with today's complex additive packages, the oils will run much longer than the manufacturer's recommendation. Think about it, if you were them wouldn't you error on the conservative side? hmmmmm

Bottom line use what you like as long as it meets the specs, change it on a reasonable interval and I doubt very seriously you will ever have an oil related failure.

Now for the gas and octane...kind of the same deal for most late model engines. Older engines...like pre 1973 or 74 when unleaded fuels were introduced in this country likely require higher octane fuels to run right and provide the lubrication from the lead. Again, personally I use 89 octane in my 05 GS "Buster" with no problem. Like Outlaw, I will throw a tank of premium in there every now and then when I feel like I want to waste a little money or to reward Buster if he is running well that day and putting a smile on my face...However again I run across people all the time (happened in nowhere North Dakota while on the way to Gillette) that will not introduce anything but premium (93 Oct) into their precious machines because "It won't run on anything else". Bull hookey....I will put 87 in there any day to keep from pushing Buster along the interstate in nowhere North Dakota! Fortunately the KLR and "Tweety" are designed to run on 87 Oct and I really like that!

Well, that is my opinion and just like rear ends...everybody got one. Just don't be scared! Use what makes you feel good. And if you get caught out of the way and have to use something else...it won't be catastrophic!

[jdubeemer]

That's all very interesting, I do use 87 in the F650 as that is what is specified and I will try some mid grade in the LT and see if I notice any difference. I do use 100 octane leaded aviation fuel in my R100/7 sometimes and it really purrs on that stuff.

[Bikebum]

My question about the gasoline is: With single hose gas pumps, how much gas must be pumped to clear the hose of the product from a previous delivery? Said another way, if I select 93 octane and the last guy pumped 87 octane, how much dilution is there?

If a customer is filling a SUV with a 30 gallon tank, the argument is moot; But since I will only pump 5 gallons or less, then if it takes one gallon to clear the pump and hose I will get a 20% dilution. Also, my dollars are diluted since the pump is delivering cheaper gasoline at the premium price.

Can anyone shed some light on this aspect of the gasoline/oil shell game (pun intended)?

[dixieoutlaw]

Pudding, you scared me.
I saw the following statement in your reply,
"Now having said all that...I can tell you that there are many more opinions on motor oils than there are on the "perfect woman". Remember folks I made my living selling..."
I for sure thought you were goin' to finish this with "women." Just glad a read teh rest of the story.
Outlaw

[Vance]

My question about the gasoline is: With single hose gas pumps, how much gas must be pumped to clear the hose of the product from a previous delivery? Said another way, if I select 93 octane and the last guy pumped 87 octane, how much dilution is there?

If a customer is filling a SUV with a 30 gallon tank, the argument is moot; But since I will only pump 5 gallons or less, then if it takes one gallon to clear the pump and hose I will get a 20% dilution. Also, my dollars are diluted since the pump is delivering cheaper gasoline at the premium price.

Can anyone shed some light on this aspect of the gasoline/oil shell game (pun intended)?

Very good question indeed jj. Actually the pump is located on top of the storage tank and and "pushes" the "gold" to what you hold in your hamnd as the dispenser. It is true that there is some residual left in the dispenser hose between the manifold located inside the dispenser housing. However this is a small amount even on a five gallon or less delivery yet not enough to make any difference. (Exception would be Mr. Jim's airplane). Therefore even though you are gettin' screwed just a little if the guy before you pumped 87 instead of 93, it is not a performance issue. But hey...that is just one more thing in this world that ain't fair..huh?

[Vance]

Pudding, you scared me.
I saw the following statement in your reply,
"Now having said all that...I can tell you that there are many more opinions on motor oils than there are on the "perfect woman". Remember folks I made my living selling..."
I for sure thought you were goin' to finish this with "women." Just glad a read teh rest of the story.
Outlaw

Well, I got your attention didn't I Outlaw????

[Bikebum]

Vance, you have answered part of the mystery. I did not know where the manifold is located, so it sounds like only the hose itself must be cleared and not the pump. The hose itself looks as if it could hold between a quart and half a gallon. Not as bad as I expected; however, I still fill up where the pumps have three hoses whenever practicable. It's just a mental thang!

[bill99rt]

OK, I'm no expert but will forward what I was told. Different octane burns at different temperatures. Different teperatures cause different rates of expansion. If you break in an engine on 87 octane and decide to run a tank of 93, you change the expansion rate and cause a different wear pattern than when you broke it in. It makes sense to me. I was one that would run a tank of premium once in a while, but now try to stick with the same all the time.

[Vance]

Dang son...good to hear from you! Hope you guys are well...we miss you! (Thread Hijack NOw Over)

[dixieoutlaw]

Pudding,
It ain't thread hijack if you were eating a big ol hunk of greasy fatback when you 'rote yo reply. As long as you keep it greasy then it fits in the oil category.

Outlaw

[Vance]

Just finished....yum yum.....